Emily Merrell 0:04
Welcome to the sixth degree Podcast, the podcast where we grill our guests about the things that make them tick and find out how human connection plays a role in their life. I’m your host, Emily Merrill. I’m your host, Emily Merrill. And today I’m so excited to have my friend Tiffany Coyle. She is the co founder of 20. Pros, and the founder of the virtual career girl, on today’s podcast, Tiffany, welcome to the show.
Tiffany Coyle 0:33
Oh, thanks for having me, man.
I’m so excited to be here. I feel like we’ve been we’ve been trying to plan this podcast now for the better part of a year. Right? These some small things came up like I had a baby, you had a baby. You know, you live in Norway. No big deal. Yeah.
Just the little things, you know, this this little
obstacles is little? What’s the time difference between Norway and the East Coast?
Oh, my God, how do you like how do you get stuff done with that, like with that time difference, typically.
So it’s actually really nice. Because during the day, I get to spend that like quality time with like, the baby, my family and stuff like that, like I get to get Olivia ready for school in the mornings. And then like, it’s during the evening, where a lot of my I like basically get to have a life before the rest of the world wakes up. That’s when I get work done is like when the state starts to wake up and moving and stuff. So my day, like, if I’m dealing with clients and stuff, I can go between like, midnight 1am Or like, especially from like networking and stuff, but like I make sure to plan plan at all accordingly. So that way, I’m not like, got like burning the candle at both ends. Oh my god,
do you sleep a little bit,
I work really well off of like five hours asleep. And then I might have to like go to bed early. And then you know, or like take nap or something. But like I’m really efficient at like, four to five hours, your adrenaline kicks in. So,
Emily Merrell 2:01
Tiffany, can you tell me you work? You don’t sleep? Essentially, you’re a supermom, you’re the mom of two girls. And can you tell me you also have two businesses? So can you tell me the difference between what twinning process and the virtual career girl?
Tiffany Coyle 2:18
Yeah, so 20 pros is essentially a organic marketing company. So I work with businesses directly to actually help them get seen online, whether through social media through SEO, PR. It can even be like branding and website design, like whatever is gonna help build up your digital presence without having to like spend a million dollars on ads, you know, so like, spending ads are great to get visibility. But when those go away, like how are people going to find you. So that’s what we focus on. And then with virtual career girl actually help other women be able to start their own virtual journey. So like, whether they’re picking a career or starting their own virtual business, but like, kind of like showing them the way of how to do that and how it’s possible. Because like, back whenever I first started working virtually, there was no like, I had no idea like, what was out there, like they were, like right now, like in the space that we’re in, like, there’s so many people that are switching virtually because of COVID. But before then, like, we didn’t have the resources that we have today. And so many people that I know specifically, they’re like, Oh, I can’t do that. Like I’m, I’m limited, like what I have available, I’m like, You’re not like you’re so capable of doing anything, anywhere. And I’ll show you how to get there.
Emily Merrell 3:32
I love that. And I think I COVID definitely gave people a lot of permission to work remotely. And I think it gave companies the permission to allow their employees to work remotely. But it’s true, I feel like pre COVID The idea of being virtual, or the idea of working from anywhere, or working for a company that’s not based in the same city or state that you’re in, seems so foreign. And now this remote lifestyle, I don’t think is going away. People love the fact that they can be on a family vacation in a cottage somewhere and still be maintaining their job and not having to take vacation time for it.
Tiffany Coyle 4:10
Yeah, because I think there’s a big difference, right? So like, back whenever I was working at a corporate job in New Orleans, I essentially like I got paid time off, right. But because of my responsibilities, I was literally on vacation with the owners of the company with a laptop like at the computer using PTO, and like still essentially working and so nowadays, like you’re able to have that flexibility and freedom to actually like take yourself away from it right so you can still enjoy your vacation but you can kind of like prioritize your time and have them respect it more versus before when it was like work all the time. Being one all the time kind of thing. It kind of like shed a light on that I think
Emily Merrell 4:50
yeah, I mean, I think you’re the perfect example of it is you run a really successful business in Norway. From the hours of midnight to like three in the morning, I do
Tiffany Coyle 5:03
have help, you know, like we do have employees and stuff and like my sister so it like we essentially say like, we’re we’re literally a 24/7 company because like I work as she works hash, so it’s just like it plays out and then and how did you?
Emily Merrell 5:17
So you and your sister Tabitha started 20 posts? Can you tell us the journey of creating this business? And Did you always know you would you wanted to be a virtual founder?
Tiffany Coyle 5:29
So actually, in high school, we had to write a senior paper. And I wrote mine on how to start a business and online business in 2008. Before like, online businesses were like a thing, right? And that was just something that just always fascinated me. Like, I always knew that I like it was just so intriguing, like the unknown. Like, I used to build websites and do branding for businesses, like locally, all through the high school, like that was just part of my like, high school credit. Like, I literally had like, five hours out of seven in the computer lab, slit a door. And
Emily Merrell 6:03
this is in New Orleans. Yeah, it was
Tiffany Coyle 6:05
like, right outside New Orleans. And, yeah, so that that happened, but I never, like you know how, like you’ve you find something that’s like, so enjoyable, that you never think that you can get paid for it, for sure. Oh, this is fun. But like, let’s go into the real world. You know, so like, while I was in college, I was working for an IT company at the time. And they’re like, it’s really great that you’re going to school, but you’re going to school to get a job. So you can either like keep going to school and stay where you’re at, or like you can move up the corporate ladder. And I’m like, I’ll just move up the corporate ladder. Yeah. So you quit college? Yeah, so I quit college and, and worked for the IT company. And then I made myself like, I move myself like, all the way up, like I even like, help them open new businesses and stuff like that. So like, I’ve been building businesses since I was 21. Wow. But doing it for other people. Like I never took myself seriously enough, even though I was doing all the grunt work, like, figuring out all the logistics and everything. Like, it’s just you don’t have the, your abilities are great, but not having the confidence in yourself is like really limiting. And so it was after I had Olivia, and, you know, working in another job in Destin. That like I never thought it was I think Olivia was like, up until she was like, five or six years old, I had never made it to a field trip or like any, because I never got the time, like I was working crazy hours. And you know, like, I would work for a company like 60 to 80 hours. And while I did have flexibility in some things, like I just had to be a one all the time, you know, and I couldn’t prioritize my time, appropriately. So like the idea of working virtually to like give myself more time with my family to be able to travel more, because I met my husband whenever he was stationed in in Florida. So I met him there. And so traveling back and forth, visiting him in Norway, and, you know, trying to like, have the time to do that. But like your job once you in the office, you know, and so they told me, they’re like, give me give me a year and then you can work virtually. And I was like, I’ll give you six months. Three months came down the line and like I wasn’t, I wasn’t getting put in that position to like start phasing out. And so I just knew that like, this was my time to like hunker down, figure out how I can make this on my own. And like in 90 days, I literally replace my income assistant, like why as a virtual assistant? Yeah, so I was like, I was I was a virtual assistant. But I was also like, the like head marketing for like different people. So I was working for real estate agents. I was working for a, like an NLP coach out of Nevada. Yeah, I’ve done like so many like project management things like all virtually so I can like build myself up to be able to start running the 20 Pros business. So like the
Emily Merrell 9:05
shit, that’s a lot. Also, I just want to point out so you’re 21 years old. You were what 21 When you were 21 2002 when you had
Tiffany Coyle 9:12
Olivia? I was 21 Yeah, so it was it was at with Olivia like I had gotten a position and she was five weeks old and when they were like you there has to like take this position or we have to give it to someone else like I didn’t even get to wait like the six week postpartum. Oh, go to work. Yeah,
Emily Merrell 9:31
I got it. Okay, so you’re a single mom with a baby with like a very new baby working full time. Did you have childcare or people around you to help support and take care of Olivia which again daycare would?
Tiffany Coyle 9:45
Yeah, so I did have like my mom and and her dad’s mom for like a short while but then I had her in like full time childcare. And I should also mention that I was commuting to work so like what Yeah, absolutely. So
Emily Merrell 10:02
you’re 21 you’re doing all of these things you dropped out of college you’re and then you were able to when you ultimately quit this job, you were able to replace your income you said in in 90 days yeah,
Tiffany Coyle 10:15
so it wasn’t that exact position because I was in New Orleans but when I made my way over because I had a few different positions between then and moving to Florida, but it was like ready to make a change like okay, I need a different scenery, you know, change your life change pace, and be able to spend time with my twin sister because we after after high school, like we We barely got to see each other anything like that, because she actually moved to Florida while in college and was doing like stuff remotely there like for school, and then also working and stuff. So So then
Emily Merrell 10:49
were you the one that pitched this idea to Tabitha or did Tabitha pitch it to you?
Tiffany Coyle 10:53
Oh, yeah, I pitched it to tab. I was like, what if we did this cuz she had Tegan, you know, Tegan was very little. And, and she was she had this position where she was, like, having to work weekends, and but she couldn’t bring Tegan with her. And so it’s just like that boundary of like, okay, I need to have like, some time to spend with my very small child, you know, like, that’s a, that’s a big breaking point. And so many people are too afraid to take that risk. And so like, I’m just so happy she died. Because like, look at where we where we are now, you know, seriously. So
Emily Merrell 11:26
both of you took a risk and a very, very, very, very, very young age, while also having your hands very full with raising small humans. And and also you were having a social life where you were dating your now husband to was stationed in Norway and doing like a long distance relationship. Yeah. That’s a lot do like, Do you ever look back and you’re like, how did I do this?
Tiffany Coyle 11:50
Oh, I look back at all the time. And I’m like, like, your 20s. And your 30s are so different, right? Like, you look back on your 20s. And you’re like, holy cow. How did I get through all that stuff? And like, and function and like, you’re 30? And you’re like, Okay, you hustle that hard. So that way you can enjoy your 30s I think yeah,
Emily Merrell 12:06
like going to the grocery store is stressful. You’re like, oh, do I have to this is a lot. So at what point did you end up moving to Norway? And, you know, moving in with your partner?
Tiffany Coyle 12:17
Yeah. So at the time, he was actually doing like their version of because he’s Norwegian. So they are doing their version of like Military Academy. So it was like this awkward stage, right? Where he wasn’t living where he was supposed to be living. And I was, you know, there. So we were both having to like, force our schedules like to make it work. Like sometimes it would be like five months, and we didn’t get to see each other. And you were living in Norway? No, this was, yeah. So now that I’m living in Norway, besides like him being on maternity leave, like he actually commutes to work. So he literally like flies every week, like up to work comes home, on the weekends, or like, it’s, it’s different. So I’m essentially like living alone in a foreign country. five out of seven days a week sometimes,
Emily Merrell 13:10
but wow. Yeah. So girl from New Orleans or outside of New Orleans moved to Destin, Florida music guy from Norway, ends up in Norway has a second kid 10 years later. 12 years later? Yeah. 10 years later, how was this round of motherhood for you?
Tiffany Coyle 13:27
Yeah, so it was honestly like, really interesting, right? Because you’re going from like, this structure, like structured hospital environment. So it’s just like, Okay, you have your doctor’s appointments, like, every so often, and you get your ultrasound appointments, and, you know, everything is just so like, by the book, and here, they’re like, let’s play it by ear. You know, like, you don’t have your first ultrasound appointment, I think until, like, 18 weeks or something like that. Yeah. And so I, I’m, of course, me being an American, that’s like, I can’t do that. Like, I have to know exactly what’s happening and stuff. So like, I went and did it like privately but all this is like public health care, like everything’s paid for like, there’s no stress, like, anytime I need to go the doctor like anytime I was just like concerned about something needy wanting a checkup from like, the hospital because like, they just do things differently. There’s no questions asked, like, come in, like no pressure. Like, even still, I had to stay overnight one night. And like, you know, like, if you’re like being monitored in the states, like they’re hooking you up to all these machines, and nothing, I was literally me and my husband and room and the nurses like call me if you need anything
like wow, so it felt like chiller.
Yeah, cuz it was just like, I still feel like I got the same level of care because I was also like, on like, high alert, you know, what they call it like, high risk pregnancy. And so like, that’s why it was like such a, like, a nerve wracking thing because it’s like, am I gonna get at the same level of care that I had with the first one, because Olivia tried to come like eight weeks early, and it was a three week stay in the hospital and stuff. And I was just like, What is this happens in a foreign country? You know, like, what if my husband’s not home, you know, all these things and like, the just the standard of care that like I was expecting, like, I still got it, but like, in a different way, you know, and it’s just so refreshing knowing that, like, literally anything I needed, no questions asked, like, taken care of.
Emily Merrell 15:27
So what was your bill for the first delivery versus the second delivery?
Tiffany Coyle 15:31
Um, the ballpark? Yeah. So I think it was somewhere around like to $200,000 or
Emily Merrell 15:39
Tiffany Coyle 15:41
Yeah, I didn’t have to pay for it. I had full coverage insurance through my parents at the time, thank goodness, but it was the hospital stay that I had that like literally, like racked up all the bill because they were having to like, take my like blood work and stuff like that, like around the clock and all this stuff. Yeah, I would be in so much debt right now. Hold that the
Emily Merrell 15:58
shit $200,000 For that was the three weeks day when she almost came to.
Tiffany Coyle 16:04
From that point on. I was in the hospital until she was delivered. And then there was an emergency C section. And then like having to stay afterwards like a week. Oh, yeah. So it was it was a lot of yeah, you
you owe us a lot of money. And then and then for its Emily, right. Emily’s your daughter? Yeah.
The name good name. I didn’t pay a dime.
Emily Merrell 16:29
Insane. It’s It’s so fascinating. I mean, I love having these conversations with people because, you know, child, obviously, that was a 10 year difference. But just like your experience was so different into different countries. And then just the reality, I don’t think a lot of people talk about how expensive having a kid really is, in terms of the actual delivery of said kids, like, we
Tiffany Coyle 16:51
know, formula is expensive, and daycare is expensive, and all of that, but like birthing a child is expensive.
Emily Merrell 16:58
And imagine if you didn’t have that health care, what would you do? I know it’s so crazy, because I’m like, the way that they have like, it’s set up in Norway, right? So like, if I if I had owned a Norwegian company, and any of these issues that I was having, like, my doctor was like, do I need to write you a note because like, it would be covered. Like, they would literally like pay my salary, like for me to not work, like take care of the moms? And yeah, if you didn’t
give yourself a maternity leave, I know you have your own business. So how did you do it? The second time around,
Tiffany Coyle 17:31
I really tried because I, I do so much like hands on client work, that everybody knew what I was expecting. But like, when you have those, like types of emergencies, where you’re just like, Okay, I need this handled. So like I like, I still gave myself like time, like I still I maybe work like 20 hours to 40 hours. You know, just like, here and there when I needed to, but
Emily Merrell 18:02
like 20 or 30 hours, like normal, normal people,
Tiffany Coyle 18:06
like normal people. But, um, but yeah, cuz I mean, I could do things like late at night. So if I’m, like, you know, creating like graphics, or like writing blog posts, or, you know, anything like that, but I also do like a business development side of things. So it’s like, more operational that I help some clients with. So like, that’s the kind of stuff that I can’t like, outsource, you know, like, it has to be redoing it, because I’m helping that client specifically. That’s where it kind of gets a little trickier. So when you’re doing those types of things for someone, so I didn’t, it wasn’t planned, you know. So that’s why I didn’t plan that out. So that was like, if I could do it over again, I would have given myself that time. But my husband, he’s been able to be home the whole time and have like, he’s home through the end of the year. Like he’s got like nine months of maternity leave, because I didn’t take maternity leave. So like, I get him home more. So I’m like, Ah, like,
Emily Merrell 19:02
the trade off is Yeah, yeah. That’s amazing. That’s incredible. So Now switching gears a little bit how you mentioned with 20 Pros, you do like SEO and marketing and all of these things. What are the biggest misconceptions you see people having with when tackling their marketing for their business?
Tiffany Coyle 19:23
Um, the biggest misconception they have is like how to get started, you know, it’s just like, oh, how do I even like, do this and it’s like, just do a little bit of research and find out what your, what your your people want, and talk about it. You know, like, just get started. It doesn’t have to be perfect. You don’t have to have a website up to start marketing yourself. Like, that’s the biggest thing that people think you need all this stuff and branding and all of these things to get started and you don’t you just have to have like an understanding of what your ideal client wants and then just start talking to them about
Emily Merrell 19:59
you Yeah, I think I think that’s, that’s a really good point. And so do you feel like people need to like hire a marketing agency right out of the gate, or that they can do it themselves, it
Tiffany Coyle 20:09
kind of depends. So like, if you’re a new business just starting out, right, like, let’s say you’re starting out with a coaching business, if you want to be able to focus, like more of your efforts on just trying to get clients and getting clients versus like, trying to create a carousel post for Instagram, tweets, LinkedIn, you know, all of these different things that you can create, like your video content, stuff, have somebody else, edit it, those different types of things are really good to outsource. So that way, you can focus on what you do best, if that’s something that you struggle with. Because like, if you’re a new person that’s starting out, and you’re spending 30 hours marketing your business, and you’re not spending that 30 hours in your business, it’s probably not going to work out the way you want it to. So then you want to outsource that, to give yourself that flexibility, to be able to really grow your business. And I think this is actually a great segue to your other business, the virtual career girl, and where you started as a virtual assistant, I think a lot of times people think that they need to hire a marketing agency, or they need to hire someone and pay a ton of money to them to do all the things when in reality, all they need is the help of one person. And that person could be a virtual assistant. And I think you did a great job of giving examples of like the first companies that you worked for how you were a project management for them. And in a way you were just organizing the founders or you were organizing all these different businesses.
Emily Merrell 21:38
And well, it’s easy to just say, Yeah, I’m gonna just give it to a marketing agency, and they’ll do it all. For me. I think a virtual assistant feels like a safer and smarter place to start. Yeah, absolutely.
Tiffany Coyle 21:53
Because, I mean, that’s what so the thing with a virtual assistant, right, like, you can start off with those smaller conversations of like, Hey, I have about like, five hours a week that I need my inbox manage, I need somebody to do these different things to my website, like different things like that, like start off with small projects, where you can have that conversation with them about the bigger things you need, is this in your wheelhouse is this something you’re comfortable with is this something that you would do at your regular right, would this be more you can get an idea of if that person that you’re hiring is the right fit for that, and without having to like, go to different places, because that’s the benefit of like, doing marketing, right, like going to a marketing agency, because there is like anything marketing related, they can either help you with it, or they have somebody to outsource it to. So same thing with like a virtual assistant, like if they have a marketing background, or if you are even if like you hired them for something else, and you see that they just have that, like, natural, I have that conversation with them. Like because A, it’s gonna give them the boost that they need to be able to give them that, you know, Virtual Freedom that they’re wanting, which is why they’re trying to, you know, build up their own virtual business, but also, you get to work with an individual, and, you know, like, you just get to get a more hands on approach, like, that’s the difference, like with our marketing agency, you know, it’s like, you’re not dealing with, like, 100 people, you’re not just like a number, you’re dealing with an individual that’s gonna see your project through. And I think that’s why you can go eat, you know, with a virtual assistant to be able to handle those different things without the sticky price tags, you know, or like you work with them in different ways.
Emily Merrell 23:33
Yeah, and I think a lot of a lot of things, I see our coaching, my coaching clients kind of get in their head and I was totally this person is feeling undeserving of hiring someone to help them that until they’re at a certain level, like, it’s like, Oh, I haven’t made enough money. I’m not deserving of hiring someone, I can do the combat graphics, I can do these things. But in reality, once I changed my mindset, and I delegated the things that definitely took me time and took like my virtual assistant, a second to make versus my like, hour of trying to make something pretty, I was not only able to get more time back into my day, I was able to take that same hour and spend it on things that move the needle for my business, you know, on client leads on creating and working on my business, versus just like working in Canva or doing the menial things that really, I was doing a detriment to myself and to my business to continue doing. Yeah, because
Tiffany Coyle 24:32
what people don’t realize is it’s not the marketing that’s going to build your relationships a net, it’s your relationships that you’re building with other people. Like that’s where the money is, you know, like that’s where when you can spend that time nurturing relationships with clients with, you know, friends with other business individuals, like that’s where you can really grow and so if you’re spending all that time doing those like things like trying to make the aesthetics look perfect, like Nobody is going to your Instagram feed and being like, that was blue that was purple.
Emily Merrell 25:06
Oh my gosh, where were you four years ago to tell me that I spend so much time on bullshit things? That I wish it?
Tiffany Coyle 25:13
Yeah. And I still find myself doing it sometimes. But I’m like, You know what, like, I’m one person and I am treated, I treat myself like your client. Like, I have to get back into that mindset of like, okay, would I would I do this for my client? Would I tell them to spend all this? No, I wouldn’t I just tell them to get started. So get started, get started.
I think that’s the best piece of advice. And so switching gears a little bit more, you know, to virtual career girl for someone who wants to start a virtual career. And that might be like working remotely or being a virtual assistant or being a coach and creating an online business. What’s the best way to find out more about
that? So if you want to find out more about how we can work together through virtual career girl, you can go to virtual career girl.com Or you can send me a DM on Instagram. It’s at virtual career girl keep it super simple.
Emily Merrell 26:02
I love it. The consistency is happening. How can people if they’re interested in working with 20 Pros learn more about 20
Tiffany Coyle 26:09
Pros. So if you want to learn more about 20 Pros, so you can go to 20 proz.com. Or you can also find me on Insta, but it’s twinning underscore pros.
Emily Merrell 26:18
Perfect. I love it. And her and her twin are literally identical. So it’s it’s funny, like they’ll get on and I’m like wait, which one? Hold on. I definitely think twice. Which one Stephanie. I think that’s awesome. Well, I am going to change the topic and we are going to move into six fast questions. So Tiffany, you know, I love asking you like a gajillion questions. I narrowed it down to six. So my first question for you is tell us an unknown fun fact
Tiffany Coyle 26:46
about you. And unknown fun fact about me.
Emily Merrell 26:51
Like I already said it was a twin.
Tiffany Coyle 26:53
I had a daughter. I’m like, Oh, I’m unknown fun fact about me as I have visited 48 Out of the 50 states.
Emily Merrell 27:04
Oh, that’s amazing. What are the ones that you’re missing?
Tiffany Coyle 27:07
Alaska and Hawaii? What? Yeah,
Emily Merrell 27:10
those are easy ones. You can just go like doop doop Yeah, just
Tiffany Coyle 27:14
hop skip and a jump away from where I live. So close to Norway. I
Emily Merrell 27:18
think you can just, you know, go to Russia. Keep going. Oh, I love that. That’s a great. And then fun fact. Who would be a dream person you’d want to be connected with?
Tiffany Coyle 27:29
Can I say literally everyone? No, just. Yeah. No dream person to be connected with is somebody that is you know, maybe struggling with wanting to work virtual just wants to have a conversation with somebody and see if they can really happen with them. That’s the person that’s the person I want to reach. It’s like, How can I help you make those moves to give yourself the flexibility and the freedom in your life? I love it.
Emily Merrell 27:54
What show are you currently watching?
Tiffany Coyle 27:56
So I am currently rewatching Saved by the Bell?
Emily Merrell 28:00
Do you know they have like a new version of it? Do they?
Tiffany Coyle 28:03
I didn’t know but I happen to find this on Netflix for the plane ride over here to New York. So, so funny. So Zack Morris is the principal if I know he’s the governor. Like the governor principal. He said, Oh my god, that is so funny. I love them. They’re like remaking this stuff like Boy Meets World and now like Girl Meets World and stuff.
Emily Merrell 28:25
I know. I know. It makes me feel really old when you’re like, Oh, we were also the high schoolers looks so much younger now than they did then. But they also look older. It’s very confusing. Very confusing, because you’re like I had a crush on people know their children. This is. Let’s say by the way, I’ll check out the new one. It’s definitely it’s I’m curious what you think.
Tiffany Coyle 28:48
We’ll definitely keep you posted on that. It’s on peacock.
Emily Merrell 28:54
What book are you currently reading? Or have you read recently?
Tiffany Coyle 28:56
Um, so the book that I’m currently reading is I can never get this guy’s last name right. But um, so I’m just you’ll know who it is. I think if I just say like his first initial crushing it by Gary Vee. Oh, yeah, man or check. Yeah, yeah. Well know that name always gets me fun to add. That’s it’s a big name. Do you like it? Oh, yeah. Yeah,
Emily Merrell 29:22
that’s how I felt too about him in general. People are like, very proud, good Gary Vee are very like MIT. I’m very mad at him. I feel like he has he’s like, I believe in work life balance a little more than he does.
Tiffany Coyle 29:35
I think. Yeah, like, I believe that you should, you know, work hard and stuff. But like, Yeah, I mean, same, like, work life balance. Like I think that’s probably the biggest takeaway from like, what I do now is like realizing you can actually have work life balance.
Yeah, you can have the like, yeah, exactly. And in life. Tiffany, what’s your favorite emoji?
My favorite M He is the one with like the star eyes. Oh, I love that. Wow,